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Twilight Sundry - moonspinner
moonspinner
moonspinner
Twilight Sundry
There I was, minding my own business (which is an occupation not so much outside the law, just a little ahead of it) and suddenly this cop busts me***...

...I run into another anti-Twilight review that talks about squealing teenage girls and their bored, stay-at-home moms and how it’s their fault that the world has been infected with Twilght mania.


*takes a deep, deep, breath*


Whenever I read something like this, I think, by association of ideas, of the billion-dollar comic book franchise in all its testosterone-powered, misogynistic glory (the creators of Wonder Woman were not thinking of little girls when they were designing that costume); and another successful fanchise based around a boy hero whose author was de-gendered so that little boys won’t be horrified they were reading a woman’s book (Quelle horreur!). And I feel freaked out, pissed off and sad.

But mostly just sad.




***Dani, P.S. I Luv U. Please don't tell me, flist, that I'm the only one who remembers/has ever watched this show.

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Current Mood: melancholy melancholy

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Comments
lesbiassparrow From: lesbiassparrow Date: April 20th, 2009 03:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
What really pisses me off is when I see people justifying this sort of reaction because Twilight is antifeminist. And then they'll turn around and praise something that I can't believe they don't see is totally misogynistic. A little self-awareness about popular culture would be nice; whatever issues Twilight has (and it has many) they're not unique to it and, honestly, there's a lot worse out there.

Plus, the patronizing idea that women and girls are so feeble-minded that if they read this one set of books they'll be RUINED FOREVER, because everyone knows the female sex just works like that, can go die in a fire.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 20th, 2009 03:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
What really pisses me off is when I see people justifying this sort of reaction because Twilight is antifeminist. And then they'll turn around and praise something that I can't believe they don't see is totally misogynistic.

Word. I mean... double standard, much?


Plus, the patronizing idea that women and girls are so feeble-minded that if they read this one set of books they'll be RUINED FOREVER, because everyone knows the female sex just works like that, can go die in a fire.

LOL! It's like, for the boys, it's "boys will be boys" or they'll grow out of that phase, or being That Guy might actually be cool *cough*Chuck*cough*. But for girls, it's all "We have to save our stupid females impressionable children from themselves!"… :P
emavalexis From: emavalexis Date: April 20th, 2009 04:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
OMG, YES. YES.

As it is, I've been entirely too apologetic or something in my 'coming out' as a Twilight fan. I've nothing to apologize for, I've realized, so I'm going to try to quit doing that.

The points both you and the other commenter make are right on the money. I've been talking a lot about Twilight with friends lately, trying to root out the exact conflicting impressions and feelings I have about it. I'm still planning on a 'meta' type post, so I'll discuss this in more detail soon.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 20th, 2009 08:11 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've nothing to apologize for, I've realized, so I'm going to try to quit doing that.

Good for you. I mean, I understand all about guilty pleasures *cough*Gossip Girl*cough, but there's an attitude towards Twilight fans that crosses a line. It's especially galling when you check out the fannish interests of the nay-sayers in question and realize that in comparism, Twilight is positively female-empowering.

Looking forward to that meta of yours!



albumsontheside From: albumsontheside Date: April 20th, 2009 04:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
That's ...

I mean, I'm open about the fact that I detest Twilight. I hate the movie, the writing, the idea, the plot, everything. And while I also tend to hate it due to some of the fans (aka, the squealing, shouting, EDWERD HAV MAH BABIEZ kind), I think that it's totally wrong to stereotype everyone like that.

that said, am I the only person on earth who /doesn't/ find Rob Patts attractive?
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 20th, 2009 08:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
Technically speaking, I'm not even a Twilight fan. I've only actually read the first book and while I could intellectually see the appeal (Mills & Boon & Vampires), they weren't my type. I was completely indifferent. Never bothered reading the sequels. Never been in the fandom. If not for all the backlash - and this particular vein of "oh think of the impressionable young stupid females children" backlash! - I probably would still be indifferent. The screaming fans don't bother me any more than the screaming fans at rock concerts do *shrugs* but then again, I haven't ever met any in person so I'm probably speaking from a sheltered position. ;)

No, dear. I am of the firm opinion that the scene in the movie where shirtless James is shirtless was the money shot.
reihla From: reihla Date: April 20th, 2009 05:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hah, exactly. :)

You know, even I can get annoyed with tween girl giggling, but I'm just impressed that they are all so head-over-heels for a boy who is determined to wait til he gets married to have sex - even if that means he waited almost a hundred years. That is what I love about Edward.

What this fascination tells us about the hopes, dreams and fears of young women in our society is a lesson that really should be heeded. I really think this is what threatens young men so much about Twilight... the idea that they might be held to a higher moral standard than they'd like.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 20th, 2009 09:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
What this fascination tells us about the hopes, dreams and fears of young women in our society is a lesson that really should be heeded. I really think this is what threatens young men so much about Twilight... the idea that they might be held to a higher moral standard than they'd like.

That makes a surprising amount of sense. I've come across a lot of criticism against Twilight for making abstinence "sexy" and Edward being a virgin is part of the mock. I've wondered - why is it so mock-worthy that Edward is a virgin? I mean, if they're looking at these books from uncompromising-gender-equality-tinted lenses, then both Bella and Edward are fair game in the virgin-mocking arena. Why is the idea of a virgin man so threatening? Almost definitely for the reason above.
frostbit_sky From: frostbit_sky Date: April 21st, 2009 02:05 am (UTC) (Link)
Word!

I'm with reihla Edward's virtue is one of the things I love most about him.

Ugh this kind of sounds like the same bozo who said Twilight wouldn't make money because girls only go to see the movies their boyfriends take them too.

PUH-LEEZE.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 21st, 2009 06:21 am (UTC) (Link)
Ugh this kind of sounds like the same bozo who said Twilight wouldn't make money because girls only go to see the movies their boyfriends take them too.

Word. One of the biggest tools for levelling the playing field is the pocketbook. Maybe with more girls watching Twilight and less watching Watchmen, Hollywood will start getting a clue.
frostbit_sky From: frostbit_sky Date: April 22nd, 2009 03:15 am (UTC) (Link)
baby steps....
reihla From: reihla Date: April 22nd, 2009 06:38 pm (UTC) (Link)
Doh! I let myself get suckered into going to see Watchmen with my husband, even after he declined the generous opportunity to attend a viewing of Twilight with me. :)

You know... it never occurred to me to feel threatened by all the testosterone in the theater. But then... there were a fair number of girls in attendance who must also have been bribed into being there.

When I think about it... Twilight must rock for being as successful *despite* the lack of "significant other" males in attendance.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 22nd, 2009 07:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Doh! I let myself get suckered into going to see Watchmen with my husband, even after he declined the generous opportunity to attend a viewing of Twilight with me. :)

You should twist his arm until he goes to New Moon with you. Or should you make him buy you the Twilight DVD. :P :P


You know... it never occurred to me to feel threatened by all the testosterone in the theater. But then... there were a fair number of girls in attendance who must also have been bribed into being there.

I think I read somewhere that most surveys show that men believe that a 50:50 men:women ratio means that there are too many women! Which is why most triumvirates (Star Wars, Harry Potter, Pirates to mention some popular ones) have a 2:1 male:female ratio. I think that the way the society is, we're all "coded" to thinking that a male-dominated gathering is normal. Or, at any rate, we don't go about thinking that there are too many men in the room?

Of course, there are lots of women who enjoy fandoms like Watchmen, etc. I mean, I enjoy the comic book mythologies of Superman, Batman, etc. I love the movie!Spider-Man 'verse and I was even in the Smallville fandom for a long time. But the fact is that those mythologies weren't crafted with the intention of women as a target audience.


When I think about it... Twilight must rock for being as successful *despite* the lack of "significant other" males in attendance.

Exactly! Some idiot in Paramount (who had the movie rights for Twilight first and after sitting on it for years finally gave them up to Summit) actually said that the movie would never sell because, Teen girls will go to whatever their boyfriends do!
lazypadawan From: lazypadawan Date: April 21st, 2009 03:15 am (UTC) (Link)
I know I didn't exactly give Twilight The Motion Picture two thumbs up, but I think you are right about something. The backlash against the merry sparkly vampires seems to be based on two things: the assertion SMeyer is far more successful than she deserves to be (which is subjective) and the fact Twilight is a chick-dominated fandom.

I have been in this wacko world for a long time and I can tell you there is a tendency to quickly dismiss, mock, and bash things that largely appeal to children or to women. Fangirls can bring their own brand of crazy, accompanied by very high decibel shrieks, but is it really any less crazy than the vulgar rants you see on AICN from fanboys? I don't think so.

Obviously, some people also find the books' social conservatism off-putting. Because we all know if you're not having sex before your sophomore year there's something wrong with you.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 21st, 2009 06:31 am (UTC) (Link)
the assertion SMeyer is far more successful than she deserves to be (which is subjective)

and getting close to being as successful as J. K. Rowling and her story about a boy hero in a patriachal society with some of the most misogynist portrayals of women I've seen in a childrens' book.


and the fact Twilight is a chick-dominated fandom.
I have been in this wacko world for a long time and I can tell you there is a tendency to quickly dismiss, mock, and bash things that largely appeal to children or to women. Fangirls can bring their own brand of crazy, accompanied by very high decibel shrieks, but is it really any less crazy than the vulgar rants you see on AICN from fanboys? I don't think so.


No, it's not. It's a double standard that labels the fanboys eccentric and the fangirls crazy. I mean, there are lots of things wrong with the Twilight-verse - I didn't give the one book I did manage to read a 2 thumbs up - but when the primary bone of contention is how it's inferior because it only appeals to women??? Then, I will take issues.

Because we all know if you're not having sex before your sophomore year there's something wrong with you.

Well d'oh. Didn't your mother ever tell you that abstinence is immoral and unnatural???
sunnyskywalker From: sunnyskywalker Date: April 23rd, 2009 04:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
Gah, yes. I mean, I don't like Twilight. I was bored stiff by the first book and alternately laughing and horrified by the excerpts of the other ones I've read. And despite Bella having agency in some ways other female characters don't, I think the series has issues with its presentation gender (and Native Americans, and... lots of stuff).

But that puts in on part with 95% of the other stuff out there! What makes a silly teen book with problems that's popular with girls any worse than a silly teen book with problems that's popular with boys? And the fact that at least a few women are wildly successful at writing and directing silly teen stories now is sort of an improvement, considering.

I think the real problem is that if silly teen stories by and for women succeed, that might take up one or two spaces that would have gone to silly teen stories by and for boys. And then the world will end, or something. Because not-even-quite-equality is oppressing the still-dominant group. Somehow.(Pfff, logic? What's that?)
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 24th, 2009 06:03 am (UTC) (Link)
I never even got as far as reading the sequels. The first book was that uninspiring. :P I know everything I do about Twilight from snarky recaps. lol.

I think the series has issues with its presentation gender (and Native Americans, and... lots of stuff).

Yeah, word on that. I wish I see a little bit more complaining about the treatment of Native Americans, actually and less about fangirls squealing or Edward’s virginity. *le sigh*

I think the real problem is that if silly teen stories by and for women succeed, that might take up one or two spaces that would have gone to silly teen stories by and for boys. And then the world will end, or something.

Well, d’oh. :p
sunnyskywalker From: sunnyskywalker Date: April 26th, 2009 09:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Snarky recaps are the best way to read the series. All the entertainment without the tedium! I work in a library, so sometimes I'll flip through things and go, "Yep, the DeathBaby birth scene is as horrific as I heard."

I definitely wish we'd hear more complaining about the treatment of Native Americans in the books (apparently Meyers went so far as to steal a Hawaiian myth and attribute it to the Quileute, and that's not even getting into the "and they'r animals! with a pack mentality!" aspect). I'm also amused that I haven't heard much religious backlash against the books despite them being pretty clear that vampire = soulless and barred from Heaven (but still dazzling!). Or maybe I've just missed that.

Awesome icon, btw.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 27th, 2009 06:35 am (UTC) (Link)
LOL! Sometimes I wish I did make the effort to read the books - it seems unfair for me to base my judgment of them on other people's judgment, so to speak... But I just can't be bothered!


(apparently Meyers went so far as to steal a Hawaiian myth and attribute it to the Quileute, and that's not even getting into the "and they'r animals! with a pack mentality!" aspect)

I think she might just have got away with the former --- the Quileute legend could have been inspired by a Hawaiian myth she heard of a long while ago and retained in subconscious memory (like Harry Potter and the Troll). She could have made it up completely and the resemblance is just a coincidence, it does happen.

But the second is just... urgh. Native Americans are descended from wolves; and they morph to werewolves to protect the pale faces from the Cullens. And the pack mentality. And the paedophilia imprinting. Urgh. Urgh.

I'm also amused that I haven't heard much religious backlash against the books despite them being pretty clear that vampire = soulless and barred from Heaven (but still dazzling!). Or maybe I've just missed that.

I heard that Meyer publishes with the support/approval of her Mormon Church so clearly, they don't have a problem with sparkling vampires and they are the ones most likely to. :P :P I kind of like the way she does try to deal with religion - Edward not wanting to turn Bella so she doesn't become a soulless vampire and Carlisle thinking that vampires might get their own Heaven. I mean Meyer doesn't really tell us who is right - Edward or Carlisle - but she raises the question. As opposed to say, Cassandra Clare's Mortal Instruments where she presents a convoluted rule about Jewish vampires not being burnt by crosses, and almost immediately contradicts her own logic because she obviously didn't think it through.
sunnyskywalker From: sunnyskywalker Date: April 27th, 2009 06:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
Well, according to this, the similarity includes (is only?) the name of the chief, Kaheleha. Which even sounds Hawaiian. So I don't know what happened.

Not even getting started on the imprinting... but 4thofeleven pointed out that if Reneesme is grown up in three or four years (as seems likely), and she and Jacob have kids, they'll be the deadliest predators ever. And they'll grow up equally quickly. This will be exponentially growing trouble even if they all turn out to be "vegetarians" - how many mountain lions would they go through? I'm betting lots.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: April 28th, 2009 06:38 am (UTC) (Link)
Oooh, that coincidence is a pretty big one. But they can't really call Meyer out on it without calling Rowling on all the coincidences between Harry Potter and that 80s movie, Eva Ibbotson's books, etc, etc.

Wow, what a theory… and it makes a lot of sense. A vampire-human-werewolf-shapeshifter hybrid. They would throw the entire ecosystem out of wack. Now, that story I could read: if all of Bella's and Edward's mutual obssession with each other was similar to a horror story akin to the Origin of Jasmine in the Angel series.
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