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Twilight movie question: Alice's turning - moonspinner
moonspinner
moonspinner
Twilight movie question: Alice's turning
To all my pals who've watched/read Eclipse: was there any reference to the fact that James led to Alice's turning, that she was the one who got away for him and that he killed her sire/protector/possible original love interest?

Current Mood: curious curious

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vanimy From: vanimy Date: July 26th, 2010 02:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't know about the Eclipse book (haven't read it yet) but there's no reference to Alice's backstory in the movie. Her story is mostly revealed in the Twilight book and the Twilight movie completely missed the opportunity.I remember liking her story in the book and being floored this wasn't even alluded to in the movie.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: July 27th, 2010 07:46 am (UTC) (Link)
I had to pull out the closest thing I have to a Twilight wtf? icon because ... WTF? When they made a point of having Alice kill James in the movie (which I'm pretty sure is not how the book plays out) and they don't mention their history, I figured it was a subtle sequel hook and it would be elaborated in the latter movies. But then they still don't? How stupid can the writers be? Doesn't it make all kinds of sense to parallel Alice's turning (for her safety, by a vampire who was presumably in love with her) with Edward's? That is such a delicious back-story and they completely ignore it? *face-palm*
vanimy From: vanimy Date: July 27th, 2010 02:48 pm (UTC) (Link)
*looks at your icon* Argh! Spoilers! ;)

Yeah, I know, it's such a missed opportunity. You're right, in the Twilight book Alice can't have killed James because she's with Bella. I suppose it's the closest thing we'll get regarding James' link with Alice. And it's all the more stupid not to have included that in the Twilight movie because it made James even more evil. It was almost like a revenge to him. It made his motivations a little bit more complex.

I think there's another outrageous snub : Carlisle's backstory. The book explains how he became a vampire and how he developed a conscience on his own. He's a role model to Edward (in Midnight sun it's Carlisle's face he sees when he's tempted to kill Bella during their first encounter) and it's a very big part of who he is and how different the Cullen 'coven' is from the other vampires. A shame.

Another snub in Eclipse : Jasper and Alice's meeting. Esme's background is kinda snubbed too as is Emmett's. But Emmett is so underveloped in SM's books it isn't a surprise.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: July 27th, 2010 03:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
Argh! Spoilers! ;)

*g* LOL!


Yeah, I know, it's such a missed
opportunity. You're right, in the Twilight
book Alice can't have killed James because
she's with Bella. I suppose it's the closest
thing we'll get regarding James' link with
Alice. And it's all the more stupid not to have
included that in the Twilight movie because
it made James even more evil. It was almost
like a revenge to him. It made his
motivations a little bit more complex.


Exactly. After all, James was more than a one-shot villain. His wife was the Big Bad for the next couple of books. Less wasn't more in this instance. And Alice being turned to save her would be an interesting parallel to Bella who was being kept from turning by Edward. On a less profound note, it's also a 'So there!' to those anti-fans who hate on Bella because part of her alleged Sue-dom was that her blood was too irresistible. James remembered that Alice's smelt better and, in fact, the reason he gave for hunting Bella had more to do with Alice than Bella herself.
vanimy From: vanimy Date: July 27th, 2010 06:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yeah I actually liked that in the book it was made obvious it had nothing to do with Bella actually. It had to do with Edward and above all Alice. Hence the taunting on Alice's past in the video James made. It was also a kind of the climax of Alice's story. There was a story on Alice losing her memories and unable to remember who she was as a human and everything culminates in James' video when he reveals entire parts of her past and the reason she was changed. Wasted opportunity, I'm telling you. *sigh* I really like the Twilight movie but when I think of how much they left out... (ex : Alice and Bella's friendship).
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: July 27th, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
It was also a kind of the climax of Alice's story. There was a story on Alice losing her memories and unable to remember who she was as a human and everything culminates in James' video when he reveals entire parts of her past and the reason she was changed.

So that is a good explanation for why it probably never came up in the books again. The more I think about it, the more it bugs me that tihs didn't get airtime in the movie. Didn't Jaspet's past get played up a lot in Eclipse? Why didn't we get to know about Alice in any of the next three movies?

And having it have nothing to do with Bella is the icing on the cake. I've read a lot of movie reviews that keep saying that the films are better than the books and the screenplay writers "corrected" SMeyer's Mary Sue heroine. Newsflash twi-haters, it's the movie that makes Bella irresistible to all vampires, not just Edward alone. WTF was up with movie!Alice's "wow! you do smell good"?
vanimy From: vanimy Date: July 28th, 2010 02:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
So that is a good explanation for why it probably never came up in the books again. The more I think about it, the more it bugs me that tihs didn't get airtime in the movie. Didn't Jaspet's past get played up a lot in Eclipse? Why didn't we get to know about Alice in any of the next three movies?

I think Alice talks about her past in the New Moon book too. I seem to remember a conversation with Bella when Alice comes back to Forks (post cliff jumping) when she tells Bella that after the family's departure of Forks she went her separate way to find out more on her past, her real name and so on. In the movie Alice's return lasts like 10 minutes while she stays at least a day in the book before going to Edward's rescue.

I think we can forget about Alice's past in the movies since Victoria is now out of the picture. I know they tried to salvage the Alice-Bella's friendship in Movie!New Moon and put the Alice-Charlie relationship in Movie!Eclipse while their relationship is alluded to back in Book!Twilight. *shrugs*

Jasper is heavily featured in Movie!Eclipse because he's also featured in that book and poor guy usually has two lines per movie...

And having it have nothing to do with Bella is the icing on the cake. I've read a lot of movie reviews that keep saying that the films are better than the books and the screenplay writers "corrected" SMeyer's Mary Sue heroine. Newsflash twi-haters, it's the movie that makes Bella irresistible to all vampires, not just Edward alone. WTF was up with movie!Alice's "wow! you do smell good"?

LOL... In the books Alice is only interested in Bella because she knows they're going to become BFFs, she's not remotely interested in Bella's blood. And that kills the whole 'singer' concept. Bella's blood is supposed to be Edward's temptation not every single vampire's in town. I too think Movie!Bella has more Mary Sueish tendencies than Book!Bella. Book!Bella is more emotional than Movie!Bella who sometimes comes across as a bitch and is loved by everyone all the same.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: July 28th, 2010 06:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think Alice talks about her past in the New Moon book too. I seem to remember a conversation with Bella when Alice comes back to Forks (post cliff jumping) when she tells Bella that after the family's departure of Forks she went her separate way to find out more on her past, her real name and so on.

I sort of skimmed through NM and I must have missed that. Awesome. For the books, that is. For the movies - that's just ... Argh!

I too think Movie!Bella has more Mary Sueish tendencies than Book!Bella. Book!Bella is more emotional than Movie!Bella who sometimes comes across as a bitch and is loved by everyone all the same.

*applause* Thank you. I think a lot of people confuse backbone for bitchiness. Book!Bella, as clingy as she was to her boyfriend, had a lot of backbone - she always got her way between the two of them.
frostbit_sky From: frostbit_sky Date: July 28th, 2010 10:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
Movie!Bella has more Mary Sueish tendencies than Book!Bella. Book!Bella is more emotional than Movie!Bella who sometimes comes across as a bitch and is loved by everyone all the same.
See, I disagree cause Book!Bella complains all the time about her human friends. From the beginning she thinks she is better than them. And she treats the human guys, particularly Mike like scum, yet they still pine after her.
Movie!Bella actually does like her human friends.

But yea, I agree the decision to eliminated the plot point of Alice's backstory and connection to James was a poor one.
And while I loved Jasper's flashbacks, I wanted one of when he met Alice in the diner.

So other than that little description in Twilight, and Alice's investigation in New Moon, that is all we get about her past in the books. :(
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: July 29th, 2010 06:23 am (UTC) (Link)
It's been a long time since I read Twilight and I never really read any of the other books, but I was left with the impression that Bella liked Angela a lot; thought rightfully that Jessica was superficial; and found - rightfully again - Mike's persistence irritating. But that didn't stop her from matchmaking Jessica and Mike and being happy that they had ended up together after high school.

And she treats the human guys, particularly Mike like scum

A lot of the guys in her school (with the exception of Ben I believe) were persistent suitors and Mike was the worst, showing an interest in Bella even after breaking up with Jessica, who she hung out with. If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't have been half as civil as she was.

So other than that little description in Twilight, and Alice's investigation in New Moon, that is all we get about her past in the books. :(

Not exactly a little description, since Alice's turning was the whole reason why the book's antagonist went after Bella. I think SMeyer did a fair job of fleshing out the backgrounds of all the Cullens given that they are peripheral to Bella and Edward's story.
frostbit_sky From: frostbit_sky Date: July 30th, 2010 03:59 am (UTC) (Link)
but I was left with the impression that Bella liked Angela a lot;
She did.

But that didn't stop her from matchmaking Jessica and Mike and being happy that they had ended up together after high school.
LOL, I felt she did that to get them off her back.

But I mean, its her first day at a new school and here the kids are being friendly and she just wants them to scram. The thoughts in her head are just so snotty. It'd be one thing once she got to know their true colors, but the first day?
Most kids would love to make new friends at a new school so fast and she wants to brush them off. It's no wonder she had no friends in Arizona.

Not exactly a little description,
When compared to the fleshed out stories we got for Carlisle, Rosalie and Jasper I wanted more of Alice's background. A few sentences from James was not satisfying for me personally.

What is worse is that we get virtually nothing of Esme and Emmett's past.
For Esme, all that is said in the book is that she jumped off a cliff after her son died shortly after birth. It's on Twilight Lexicon that you find out her husband was abusive yet her parents forced her to remained married to him.

And you would think that since she tried to commit suicide, Esme would have had spoken to Bella about jumping off a cliff herself and to Edward for his attempt. :(


moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: August 16th, 2010 06:44 am (UTC) (Link)
LOL, I felt she did that to get them off her back.

Maybe Mike but not Jessica. I think that was a kind thing to do for Jessica.

I don't remember her being outright unfriendly as much as she seemed weirded out by all the overtures of friendship which were obviously more about some people looking good by getting "in" with the new girl than about anything to do with her, Bella, as a person. And it's lazy writing, but Rowling does the same thing in Harry Potter when he is hostile to Draco Malfoy when they first meet before he even has a reason to be.

When compared to the fleshed out stories we got for Carlisle, Rosalie and Jasper I wanted more of Alice's background. A few sentences from James was not satisfying for me personally.

What is worse is that we get virtually nothing of Esme and Emmett's past.


But isn't that what fan fiction is for??? :P

The backstory we got on most of the characters is fair. The focus of the story is Bella and Edward after all. As much as I don't agree with the decision, there's a reason why the movie people left Alice's story on the cutting room floor.


And you would think that since she tried to commit suicide, Esme would have had spoken to Bella about jumping off a cliff herself and to Edward for his attempt. :(

It worked out for her in the end, didn't it? Since she doesn't have any regrets, perhaps she felt - and rightly so - that she's not the best person to give advice on suicide and held her peace?
frostbit_sky From: frostbit_sky Date: August 18th, 2010 04:04 am (UTC) (Link)
And it's lazy writing, but Rowling does the same thing in Harry Potter when he is hostile to Draco Malfoy when they first meet before he even has a reason to be.
I never knew that.

But isn't that what fan fiction is for??? :P
The plot bunnies attack my brain endlessly and may drive me mad!! lol

It worked out for her in the end, didn't it? ....perhaps she felt - and rightly so - that she's not the best person to give advice on suicide and held her peace?
Yea, but... IDK it felt - unresolved. Again, I need fanfic.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: August 18th, 2010 10:18 am (UTC) (Link)
Yea, but... IDK it felt - unresolved. Again, I need fanfic.

I think there's a fine line between a writer giving too much information so that the fans have no leeway to speculate (*cough*Epilogue-of-doom*cough*) and a writer giving so little information that the story ends with lots of dangling plot threads. It also varies from story to story, and from reader to reader.
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