?

Log in

No account? Create an account
entries friends calendar profile Previous Previous Next Next
In which I declare myself a fandom heretic - moonspinner
moonspinner
moonspinner
In which I declare myself a fandom heretic
After the euphoria of Atla's Book 3 (Fire) wore off, I realized that I had some issues with it. And some is an understatement. It took me a while (another understatement) to put them together with any degree of coherency. I don't think I succeeded. But here they are, at last, to all intents and cathartic purposes.

A picture of a giant turtle does not a convincing Chekhov's Gun makes. As far as this user is concerned, Spirit-bending is a Deus ex Machina.

Crazula made sense - if by sense, you mean I could squint and see the lead up to it - but shoddy build-up doesn't stop it from being cliche or smacking of writer back-tracking. (Bryke apparently just woke up and realized that for the story to end with any kind of coherent victory, they'd have to take down a fourteen-year-old girl. Oops).

On the other hand, I can squint until I'm cross-eyed but I don't see Ozai ripping off his shirt and going mano a mano against the Avatar. Apparently Sozin's Comet comes with an unknown side effect that makes erstwhile Evil Overlords do stupid things like risk their lives in battle when they have perfectly competent mooks to do the job for them.

The writers had one idea for Mai in the beginning and changed their minds half-way through. No matter how much I try to fan-wank it, I can't get past the fact that: Mai could defy Azula over Zuko (her boyfriend) in a way that she couldn't bring herself to defy Azula over Tom-Tom (her baby brother). Or that she never appeared to have any problems with Azula until Zuko came on the scene. Which has all sorts of face-palming, anti-feminist implications that I won't even begin to go into.

I really don't care that there was no resolution to Iroh's spirit powers or Ursa's appearance. However since so many episodes were spent rehashing old ground (Katara does stupid things to save people! You don't say!) or inventing new angst to resolve within twenty minutes viewing time (Sozin suddenly has a non-Bending hang-up. Oh no, he doesn't!)...

I love Zuko. You know I love you, Zuko, don't you? And Aang, I adore you even more so. But if after two seasons of Zuko hunting me down and one episode of betraying me and causing my death, you followed me to my hiding place and then I was attacked by your assassin who you then killed... I'd still think you were setting me up. I certainly won't be going off alone with you to some unheard of Firebending Masters valley. And I'd think my bodyguard/girlfriend who was also personally betrayed by you and had just threatened to kill end you if you ever tried to kill me again would be scandalized at the idea.

I'm a Kataang fan and I wish that the series had not ended with twelve-year getting his mack on. Seriously. I kind of loved the show when it was about family and friendship and not Mystical Asia 90210. That's what fandom is for.

Gosh, I needed to get that off my chest. More coherency later. Yes, there is a method to this madness, I assure you. No, I am not finished. Yes, I am expecting mass defriending. :(

Tags: ,
Current Mood: calm purged

93 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
yukinoomoni From: yukinoomoni Date: December 6th, 2010 04:20 pm (UTC) (Link)
First of all, I find your censoring of my comments over on avatar_fans absolutely childish. As such, despite the fact that you have written this post eloquently, it still doesn't dispute the fact that it's all been said over ten times before.

Because you have acted childishly, I have little reason to take anything you say seriously, so even if you have presented these arguments in a way that would have persuaded me, your behaviour has automatically dissuaded me.

If you don't like what someone says, and you don't feel that they have a right to say them, especially if they contradict your own opinions, don't post them on public forums.

Otherwise, here's a community just for you: thecakeisalie.

Edited at 2010-12-06 04:21 pm (UTC)
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 6th, 2010 04:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks for calling my post eloquent! I didn't think it would even come close what with my, "oh screw this! I'm tired to working out how best to say this logically in my head and I'm just typing out what I feel" attitude when I wrote it. I'm not sure I wrote it out to persuade anyone. It was more of cathartis. I needed to get it out because yes, it's been over two years, but it's bugged me all this well and sort of soured my enjoyment of AtLA - which I love so hard - because post-series finale, it seemed you could either be in-love-with-the-finale-and-Bryke-can-do-no-wrong or a disgruntled Zutara fan who was going to find fault with everything. There's been no middle ground.

I deleted your comment on the community because, like I said in the PM, I didn't want the first comment to be about how this post was just going to start a wankfest again. I didn't delete it because you contradicted anything here. You weren't even replying to anything in the post - just the idea of the post at all. (Which is kind of ironic).
misora From: misora Date: December 6th, 2010 08:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
As a non-Kataang shipper and as someone not on your flist, I just want to say: a lot of people agree with your dissatisfied feelings from the finale. Unfortunately in this fandom, it's commonplace to get a lot of flak for saying *anything* that could be remotely construed as "attacking the creators", when in fact you're just expressing your inability to suspend disbelief over certain things that happened.

A lot of us at thecakewasalie are Z/K shippers, and while that might paint us with a particular brush in some peoples' eyes, many of us (myself included) would have been perfectly happy with an open ending as opposed to the romantic "sealing the deal" on the canon ships. After all, as you mentioned, the point of the whole show was friendship, and how powerful it can be...and it would have been great to just see more shots of the group acting happy and victorious together instead of a forced romantic angle.

Bryke excels at worldbuilding and portraying camaraderie. Romance and linear storytelling, not so much.

:)
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 7th, 2010 07:44 am (UTC) (Link)
As a Kataang shipper, I should be happy with the way the story ended, ship-wise but I'd like to think I expect more from a story than just seeing my preferred people sucking face at the end. A little coherency... a little consistency... I'm not asking for much. Heck, just keeping the S2-ending status quo between K/A instead of injecting a lot of artificial, pseudo-realistic, un-resolved no-matter-how-you-squint-to-see-it-as-'growth' angst between them. As for Zuko/Mai, I've said it before and I'll say it again but tying an erstwhile strong woman's redemption to her boyfriend - after taking pains to not tie it to her family - is not pro-feminist.

Unfortunately in this fandom, it's commonplace to get a lot of flak for saying *anything* that could be remotely construed as "attacking the creators", when in fact you're just expressing your inability to suspend disbelief over certain things that happened.

Yes, I think so. It's a creepy parallel with the way the anti-whitewashing crowd was shouted down when the movie casting was first released.
inuyatta From: inuyatta Date: December 7th, 2010 06:17 am (UTC) (Link)
Despite the minor wank that seems to have cropped up either here or elsewhere, I agree with this post fully. And no, I have not ever shipped Zutara either. ;)

So no, not alone. Avatar as a whole is an excellent series to be held up with 'Gargoyles' as one of the best cartoon series for a certain generation--but with that said, the third season definitely fell short of the standards set by the previous two, and I honestly suspect a lot of coherent storytelling was scrapped when some of the writing team left before the series was done.

My own biggest issues with the last season aside from what you've already mentioned?

We had it beaten into our heads for the first two season that Aang had to beat Ozai BEFORE the comet's arrival. So why the hell are they all playing beach party and going 'oh yea, btw, we decided we'd wait until AFTER the comet to take on Ozai, that's cool, right? :D'.

Also? Combustion man was completely useless to the storyline. If Zuko wanted to prove he was trustworthy, he should have told the Gaang what his father's intentions were from the beginning.

Then again, if I were Zuko, I also would have assumed that the Avatar was gonna get on that shit before the +10 fire stat comet came around because, lol, if you have the grand ambition of world domination and suddenly the heavens align for you to have the firepower to make it happen? Looks like a prime opportunity to move in, doesn't it?

*facepalming forever*

One more thing--Katara's 'forgiveness' with Zuko was poorly handled. I'm glad it happened, but man, I would think she'd have been ready to forgive Zuko after he saved HER FATHER, not because he helped her on a ridiculous 'revenge' mission. That just seemed like a major regression for both of their characters in that episode.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 7th, 2010 07:56 am (UTC) (Link)
Where do I begin about the seething pool of conflicted emotions that I have with the Southern Raiders? LOL. More uncensored ranting in a moment.
paperclipchains From: paperclipchains Date: December 7th, 2010 07:06 am (UTC) (Link)
All of this has been said a million times over, and deleting the first post to call you out in it isn't classy. Don't delete posts - especially community ones.

That said...

Mai is just not that attached to her family. I think you're right that the writers took her in a slightly different direction than initially anticipated but I think they did the same thing with Ty Lee and honestly, it isn't night-and-day, and it makes perfect sense. It's a little amoral for most people's tastes but I'd hardly clal it anti-feminist.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 7th, 2010 07:51 am (UTC) (Link)
*shrugs* They had their say here, a civil discussion ensued and a wank-fest was avoided.

it isn't night-and-day, and it makes perfect sense. Not to everyone, obvs. Actually I found Ty Lee's arc - from being forced into mookdom by Azula to finding the courage to take her down when her friend was in danger - the most consistent of the three Ozai's Angels.

Still you don't think the cliche of the evil woman redeemed by her love of a good man has er... Unfortunate Implications?
alexb49 From: alexb49 Date: December 7th, 2010 02:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
Just stopping in to commend you on being very politic in your discussion here. It is indeed ironic that those who comment negatively on deleting yukinoomoni's comment seem to not want this discussion to take place because it's 'been said before'. If it's been said before, then obviously there are differing opinions. Telling people to not have the conversation will absolutely in no way quash the enmity that seems to come so easily in this fandom. While I disagree with deleting comments, I can understand why a comment to the effect of 'this discussion should not be happening' would be something you wouldn't want derailing a thread. Since you seem to handle yourself capably here, I would suggest simply continuing that reasonable attitude to counter those opinions rather than deleting them.

I'll say that I've written Zutara but that this should bring my opinions on the final into suspicion is really disturbing to me. I have no vested interest in what canon does because that's what fanon is for. This may be because I'm a slasher at heart and it will be a long time before there's enough ghey in American media for my liking.

Now after all that, to the meat of your post. I found that almost all of the creators' handling of things romantic to be poor at best. I find the way that Zuko and Mai interact in the Beach as two teenagers going through the motion of how they think a boyfriend and girlfriend should act. That Mai becomes such an afterthought for Zuko doesn't help either. I know you're a fan of Aang and Katara but I have to say that I felt that Aang's affection was very much one sided until it popped up in the finale. A lot of the counter arguments say that there's a subtlety that those that have complaints with the third season are missing. But as you say, there's far too many episodes that simply rehash the same themes, surely the creators could have spent a few more seconds along the way adding some texture to those subtleties? If I need to frame by frame skip through a scene to find a statue of a lion turtle, surely you could have a passing mention of a completely different form of bending that has been lost to the ages at some point in the show's three year run? If there's something so subtle that there's a chunk of your audience missing it, then it's poor storytelling no matter how you slice it.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 7th, 2010 03:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm not a fan of censoring either. But the comment (which has been reposted verbatim over here, by the way) would have derailed the whole discussion before it had even started. Saying 'this discussion should not be happening' isn't even disagreeing with anything in my post, just - indirectly - saying the post should be censored shouldn't have been brought up in the first place. Yeah, the irony is... ironic. :P

I have to admit that it took me a long time to first: admit to myself that there were problems in S3, and then: admit to other like-minded (shipper-wise) fans that there were problems in S3 because of shipping. At first, I was just glad that my ship had won! *bows head* Then, when I tried to speak up, I noticed how quickly the show defenders were eager to jump down any critic's throat and label them a "delusional" Zutara or worse. You know you've entered scary territory when you get defriended for daring to point at the Ember Island Players and suggest that Bryke might have allowed some of their fandom sentiment seep into the storytelling.

And if I've in anyway given the impression that a Zutara fan's problems with S3 are any way less valid than mine, then I apologize. I really don't mean that at all. As a Kataang fan, I have a lot of problems with S3, even more than I would have had if I didn't ship anything. The bottom line is that there are problems with the way the romantic relationships were handled. Sure, writers can't please everybody. But when both the ship winners and losers are complaining, then there is a problem.

That Mai becomes such an afterthought for Zuko doesn't help either.

*face-palm* Can someone still explain to me why a Mai (not Maiko) fan should be happy that Mai: does a High Heel Face Turn for Zuko, risks her life to help him escape the Boiling Rock (because he certainly wasn't there when Ty Lee stopped Azula from electrocuting her), and languished in prison, and gets for her pains, Zuko turning around on his Coronation Day and effectively going, "Wow, Mai! So glad you're still alive!" ???


If I need to frame by frame skip through a scene to find a statue of a lion turtle, surely you could have a passing mention of a completely different form of bending that has been lost to the ages at some point in the show's three year run?

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Edited at 2010-12-07 03:39 pm (UTC)
mentalguru From: mentalguru Date: December 7th, 2010 06:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
Personally I think we were all spoiled by s2 in some respects it had undercurring arc ongoing. S3 paled in comparison to it in some ways. Oddly though quite a few of my favourite episodes are also in s3 and 1 too though.

I'll admit that a few more subtilties could be added, though I disagree that Kataang was never hinted from Katara's end from before the s3 finale. (Cave of two lovers etc.) I really do wish they'd said something in between EIP and the finale though.

Personally I could have done without combustion man for instance as well- an assassin seems like something Zuko would maybe do, but I despised CM. No not in the way you're 'supposed' to hate an antagonist who is trying to kill the hero- but as a character he was TERRIBLE to me.

Also I would have liked to have seen Aang attempting to gain the Avatar State and failing- rather than being told in a random comment to Toph.

I also have some areas of greed too though. I want to see more platonic!zukaang because I love that ship and their canon relationship arc. I do think it was weird how people didn't kick up a stink surrounding the whole 'Aang going with Zuko alone' thing but I guess Aang must have confinced them somehow. But Aang himself is pretty forgiving. When something is forgiven it's forgiven in his case. Though it would have been sweet to have some more tender moments- like maybe Aang comforting Zuko after a nightmare or something the first night they're there. (Granted I did write that oneshot myself).

I love FBM though, still the set up could have been a bit more organic.

S3 is not without its flaws, but overall I love the show and the series.

And so I continue to write zukaang bromance when I can and sometimes (yeah) fit in little scenes I wanted to see which could still fit with canon material.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 8th, 2010 10:10 am (UTC) (Link)
Personally I think we were all spoiled by
s2 in some respects.


TRUE.

I disagree that Kataang was never hinted
from Katara's end from
before the s3 finale.


I think they set up Kataang sufficiently up
until ‘The Headband’. Then
they seemed to ... rip it apart? Creating what
I see as artificial
angst and ambiguity in the relationship –
Katara is ‘confused’! Aang
thinks he’s just a little boy! – when they had
real issues they could
have dealt with. What happened to Aang
thinking that he needed to let
Katara go to achieve the Avatar State? And
Katara and her sudden
resentment to her father for leaving them
to fight in the war (and
what was that? Yes, it made sense. But it still
seemed to come out of
nowhere) – why didn’t she have issues with
the fact that Aang almost
died? There was so much squandered
potential there that was lost and
substituted for something that seemed little
more than ‘would
they/won’t they?’ fan baiting.


Personally I could have done without
combustion man for instance as
well.


CM was a merchandising ploy and just that as far as I'm concerned. Let's absolve Bryke of that and blame it on Executive Meddling. :P


Also I would have liked to have seen
Aang attempting to gain the
Avatar State and failing- rather than being
told in a random comment
to Toph.


THIS! THIS! THIS! And what was with the
Avatar State being restored by
some random blow to the back? Wow, Aang, you didn ’t lose the Avatar
State because of mental blocking. Or even
the fact that you died and
might have killed off the
Avatar Spirit forever!!!
. (Was I
the only one who thought they might have
to deal with the fact that
since Aang died in the Avatar State, he was
brought back to life no
longer as ‘The’ Avatar but just Aang, an
airbender? And he might have
had to undergo a spiritual quest to regain/
restore the Avatar State? And
maybe during that Spiritual quest, he might
have found out about
Spirit-bending! Lost opportunities!)
No,
Aang, all you needed to
get back the Avatar State was a really
strong-wristed masseuse!


I want to see more platonic!zukaang
because I love that ship and
their canon relationship arc. I do think it
was weird how people
didn't kick up a stink surrounding the whole
'Aang going with Zuko
alone' thing but I guess Aang must have
convinced them somehow.


That episode would have worked so much
better if Aang had run off with
Zuko to find the Fire-benders. If they had
brought it up and Toph
said, “OK” and Sokka said, “Maybe not so
soon after he just did his
Heel Face Turn? That's lie inviting a new AA member to a wine tasting” and Katara had said a big
NOOOO and then Zukaang had
had to take off on their own while
everybody worried that Zuko had
betrayed Aang and they are about to go out and rescue Aang and
then... the two turn up at the end. And all
throughout the mission,
there are so many moments that old!Zuko
could have capitalized on and
Zuko never does and it ends with both of them being closer.

Now that would have made far more sense
than, “Oh you want to go on an
unsupervised field trip with the guy that’s
been trying to kill you
the past 2 seasons? Pack lunch!”


S3 is not without its flaws, but overall I
love the show and the series.


Thank you. I think it is entirely possible to
see the flaws in
something and love it despite the flaws and
fanwank to make up for
those flaws even though all the while you’re
not denying you are
fanwanking and not referring to something in canon that apparently, only you can see. I just don ’t get the ‘OMG! The show is
perfect forever and you
are not allowed to say one bad
word against it or you are a
BAD fan ’ attitude.
awhitemothflew From: awhitemothflew Date: December 7th, 2010 11:38 pm (UTC) (Link)
you make good points. as far as the Zuko/Aang thing goes, all i can say is that they are basically children, at least Aang still is, wise though he may be- and children are trusting.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 8th, 2010 08:44 am (UTC) (Link)
I think I'd have been happier if one person had remained wary of Zuko in a rational way - because of the past betrayal - not because of deep-seated issues about her mother. Katara wasn't that person because they made her distrust for Zuko a problem with *her* and not the natural fallout of their past interactions.
silverthunder From: silverthunder Date: December 8th, 2010 02:41 am (UTC) (Link)
You make several good points. I agree that the lion-turtle/spirit-bending and Azula's insanity could've used a lot more build-up. I liked those elements, but a little more foreshadowing would've been nice.

I'm one of those people who gets a little tired of hearing about Tom-Tom. Mai's relationship with her family is not good, and Azula is not noted for forgiveness. Aang shows up with Tom-Tom in a protective sling, giggling and laughing. It's obvious to anyone giving the situation more than half a glance that he's in no real danger - in fact, he's probably better off where he is than in Azula's hands after Mai defies her.

Mai and Ty Lee both acted friendly towards Azula for the most part, and - let's face it - what reason did they have to go against her and risk her anger? She has them fighting against enemies of the Fire Nation, so as far as they're considered, they're not doing anything worth rebelling against. Even when Zuko was involved, the goal was always "capture", not "kill" (at least as far as they knew). It wasn't until there were higher stakes involved (Zuko's life in Mai's case, and Mai's life in Ty Lee's) that they pushed back.

I also never really thought of Mai as being evil, so I don't see her as being "redeemed" by Zuko. How is it anti-feminist that she wants to stand up and take action to protect someone she genuinely cares about? I don't get this. Probably a difference in how we interpret that scene, I'm thinking.

Hadn't thought about Ozai being so eager to go one-on-one with the Avatar, but given that he's a bit of an ego-maniac and doesn't seem quite as sly as his daughter, this doesn't bug me too much. He behaved similarly during his showdown with Zuko (sending his guards out of the room).

Aang is a naturally forgiving person, and someone who tends to trust his instincts, so I don't see the acceptance of Zuko as being out of character. Particularly with Toph vouching for his sincerity. In a normal situation, yes, most people would be suspicious. But it made sense to me here. Again, probably a difference in interpretation.

To be honest, I didn't have a problem with the smooching, but I think the whole Kataang thing would've made more sense without the interlude in Ember Island Players. I get the feeling that scene was just ship-baiting.

Anyway, that's all. :)
inuyatta From: inuyatta Date: December 8th, 2010 05:12 am (UTC) (Link)
As someone who is still irked with Mai about the Tom-Tom thing, for me it wasn't so much that she handed him over without batting an eye, but more that she was throwing weapons at the people who were holding him in mid-air at the time. That particular action proves for me that she really didn't care at all about her innocent baby brother, and as an older sister, it bothered me personally.

She made for a decent henchwench and was pretty refreshing in contrast to Ty Lee's oblivious approach and Azula's smug superiority--but when Mai was supposed to be considered one of the good guys, that is when it became pretty hard to swallow.

Anyhow, just thought I'd toss that in there so that you understand where at least one of us 'nay-sayers' is coming from.

Aside from that, I agree with your comment--I disliked Ember Island Players overall, because it felt like it was just there to stir up shit in the fanbase, and lol, successful troll was successful.
othellia From: othellia Date: December 13th, 2010 09:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
A bit late to the party, but I just want to say that I agree with you. Though I've come to terms with a lot of other things since I first watched the finale over two years ago, I still can't get over the giant Deus Ex Machina. My biggest hope for Korra is that it doesn't end in a similar fashion.

The good news though is that - despite the flaws of Season 3/the Finale - there will always be Season 2 a bunch of other good stuff in the series that can be focused on instead.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 17th, 2010 08:45 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm sorry it's taken me this long to reply to you! I got a bit sidetracked by some other passions (Vampire Diaries & Nikita :D ) . I enjoyed reading your post. So much word on how ridiculous Ozai and Aang flying around looked. I thought the idea of Azula being able to fly with her fire jet pack was stretching it a bit. I could almost buy the fact that Ozai could fly with the Power of the Comet (TM) but I found it hard to understand why Ozai would want to go mano a mano with the Avatar in the first place. That was not his style. I also thought Azula's mental breakdown was a deus ex machina of sorts - the creators scrambling around to not write a 14-year-old girl as an irredeemable villain, too.


To be honest, I'm not that cool about Korra. ATLA gets a lot of credit for being pro-feminist but in all honesty, I think it gets that cred dishonourably by a combination of luck and unexpectedly favourable Executive Meddling. Bryke envisioned Azula and Toph as male characters in the first place and it was NICK that insisted that they should be female to capture young girls' viewership. And just looking at the number of relevant older-gen characters is an indication of just where women rank in their esteem.
From: sharkman_jhones Date: December 15th, 2010 09:58 am (UTC) (Link)
Late to the party as well, but something I gotta point out that I noticed discussed in other comments: the writing staff, in fact, did *not* change very much between Season 2 and 3.

"The Boiling Rock" was written by the same writer as "The Chase" and "The Southern Raiders" had the same writer as "Return to Omashu." Really the writers for season two were nearly the exact same crew. The writers for season 2 were as follows:

Aaron Ehasz
Elizabeth Welch Ehasz
Tim Hedrick
John O'Bryan
Joshua Hamilton
Michael Dante DiMartino & Bryan Konietzko

With special "guest" writers for "Tales of Ba Sing Se":

Joann Estoesta
Lisa Wahlander
Andrew Huebner
Gary Scheppke
Lauren MacMullan
Katie Mattila
Justin Ridge
Giancarlo Volpe

The writers for season 3? The exact same people, with one difference: May Chan wrote "The Boiling Rock: Part One" and Katie Mattila wrote "The Beach." Otherwise, there was no change in the writing staff.

As for the directors of Season 2?

Giancarlo Volpe
Lauren MacMullan
Ethan Spaulding
Michael Dante DiMartino

Season 3's directors? Again, only one change, Lauren MacMullan left the show and was replaced by Joaquim dos Santos, who was responsible for some episodes you claim to have loved and some you claimed to have problems with. (Well, that, and Mike didn't direct an episode in this one, but he was still on the show.)

The big shift in writing staff was actually between the *first* two season, not the *last* two, so it's not really to "blame" for problems you found in season 3.

In all, you make some damn fine points, even if I can't really bring myself to fully agree with them. It's not that you're "wrong," far from it, you're actually making me think more about Season 3. I think I just found that good outweighed the bad.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: December 17th, 2010 08:27 am (UTC) (Link)
In all, you make some damn fine points, even if I can't really bring myself to fully agree with them. It's not that you're "wrong," far from it, you're actually making me think more about Season 3. I think I just found that good outweighed the bad.

Thanks, I really appreciate that - perhaps even more than if you already agreed with me. The most rewarding part of sharing one's feelings like this if having some re-evaluate the series with a more critical eye. I do remember loving the series finale when it first aired; but I feel that marathon re-watching of the complete series highlighted too many red flags. I think there was a lot of good in S3. I am not share it outweighed the bad though.

Thanks for the fact check about the writers. That was information that I got from an earlier commenter. From what you've shown it seems that the creative crew really did not change that much. But I wonder if there was an end-of-project backlash - the lag at the tale end of any project where people are "mentally" moving on to the next one. I don't want to blame everything on Bryke letting fandom get into their heads.
93 comments or Leave a comment