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Holiday TV Viewing - moonspinner
moonspinner
moonspinner
Holiday TV Viewing
Because when I wasn’t jumping every five minutes to rescue live electric wires from C’s teeth, I was lounging in bed re-watching a lot of my favorite shows. And here is what I think:

NIKITA (no spoilers): Is giving ALIAS a run for its money for the position of best show about Kick-Ass Female Agents/ Rogue Agents/ Double Agents. (Which is all kinds of funny because apparently ALIAS was based on the original NIKITA/ LA FEMME NIKITA and now, NIKITA (TV) is based on ALIAS to some extent. Talk about the serpent eating its tail). To the uninitiated, NIKITA is XENA with spies. Maggie Q is the most bad-ass woman on TV right now and Alex (Lynda F’s role) is the most bad-ass protégé since Gabrielle. Oh and there are lots of good-looking men with interesting roles, as well but they are clearly secondary characters. Apart from Nikita and Alex, the most intriguing person in the cast is probably Jaden, another woman. Of course, the fandom hates her. Also the ‘Dress Lady’ is the Chief Interrogator. :P

THE VAMPIRE DIARIES (spoilers for early S1): The show’s HSQ has probably broken the HSQ meter and I am particularly gratified because I loved the show from the beginning when most people were calling it ‘Twilight TV’. One of the things that drew me to the show was Bonnie and the way the show did not make her a Sassy Black Friend but an interesting character with her own agency and arc. I really don’t know what happened half-way Season 1 or whether it was the plan from the start to turn Bonnie into a Magical Negro and leave her there. But something sucks in the State of Mystic Falls about the way Bonnie has been consistently sidelined and treated like a plot device since the death of her grandmother and no amount of HSQ where Elena/Katherine, the Salvatores, Caroline, the Lockwoods are concerned is going to make up for that particular aspect of fail. So, get your act together, Show otherwise I might just bail out on you. On the other side, Elena rocks! She rocks so hard that I want to reach through the TV screen and hug her. The only thing stopping me from trying to do so is the slim but very real possibility that I might accidentally hug Katherine instead. And she’d eat me.

LEGEND OF THE SEEKER S2 (spoilers all the way!): I got the DVD long ago as my way of contributing to the Save The Seeker campaign but I couldn’t bring myself to watch it because I was so heartbroken over the cancellation. Well, I got over that. And it was so much better on re-watching. I remember being slightly irritated by ‘Walter’ which (until the end) I felt was a parody episode to show off Craig Parker’s comedic timing and not advance the plot (shades of ‘Mirror’ in Season 1); but this time around, I LOL’d from beginning to the end. Woobie!Walter is just so adorbs. And Malray really scored lucky finding a friend like that. There were still gaping plot holes and handwaves, large enough to fill a whole essay with – Denee dies how many times again? – but the characters are too adorable for me to care too much :P. I still think Cara’s arc was a wonderful contribution to the show. R/K is the sweetest OTP on screen ever and I love the way Kahlan and Cara are clearly the Lancers to Richard’s Hero. The fight scene in ‘LIGHT’ is still the best Ass-Kicking Fight Scene in the show since Evah. Even though I don’t ship them because I don’t think every cool relationship has to be a romantic one, I love Kahlan/Cara as BFFs. ‘Extinction’ is particularly poignant when you remember what happens next. Talking about which – my only regret is that the creeptastic creep that was Dahlia didn’t just DIAF. Yeah, she and Cara were trained together and yeah, she is just as much a brain-washed victim as any of the other Mord’Sith. Yada yada yada. She tricked Cara, turned her, and continued to serve Darken Rahl even after he was dead. To quote Iroh: she needed to go down. What really kicks is that in the end, she gets rewarded: she never got to be turned into a Mord’Sith. (Shades of Callisto, come to think of it. Mmmm…)

FRINGE (slightly spoilerish but nothing major): Olivia rocks, as always, and the Alt-world is fascinating. But this season would have rocked so much more if the writers didn’t go the whole ‘vagenda’ route with Bolivia. I have thoughts about this and I may write meta.

UNDERCOVERS (no spoilers): I can see why it was cancelled. I think JJ and co. played it too safe and I know why they did so but it ultimately hurt the show. But. But. I still think that if the network/fandom had given it more of a chance, it would have hit its stride eventually.

COVERT AFFAIRS (no spoilers): It was marketed as the new ‘ALIAS’ which is all sorts of wrong because there is no Rambaldi and Annie Walker is not Sydney Bristow. (There Is Only One Sydney Bristow!!!) But. Annie Walker is an interesting character in her own right and even though the show takes pains to show that she is just starting out, there are flashes of brilliance that make the show more than ‘A Year in the Life of the Rookie Agent’. From what I have glimpsed from fringes of fandom, I may be the only person who isn’t shipping Angie (:P). I like them as friends. I’m far keener on Annie/Jai and after Episode 11, I even have a soft spot for Annie/Ben. We’ll see.

CROSS OVER SPECULATION (spoilers? :P): Am I the only one that sees Covert Affairs’s Joan as the grown-up version of The Vampire Diaries’s Caroline in Fringe’s B-universe? And it’s not just the blonde hair. It’s the whole Caroline ‘I am Bossy and will organize not just your life but your country. I can be Catty and don’t ask me a question if you don’t want to know the answer. And my mom taught me how to use a gun since I was 6’ Forbes attitude fast-forward a couple of decades of experience and maturity.

I would love to discuss any of these shows but be careful if you’re not up to date because there might be spoilers in the comments. :D

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23 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 10th, 2011 02:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
Talking about which – my only regret is that the creeptastic creep that was Dahlia didn’t just DIAF. Yeah, she and Cara were trained together and yeah, she is just as much a brain-washed victim as any of the other Mord’Sith. Yada yada yada. She tricked Cara, turned her, and continued to serve Darken Rahl even after he was dead. To quote Iroh: she needed to go down. What really kicks is that in the end, she gets rewarded: she never got to be turned into a Mord’Sith. (Shades of Callisto, come to think of it. Mmmm…)

My God finally someone who has the same opinion about that biatch. She did the same thing Triana did to Cara in Marked (even worse imo), and yes i do believe Triana and Cara were also lovers (Cara's reaction to dead Triana in 1x22). You claim you love someone and then you betray and torture them...i know she's a Mord'Sith and that she thought she's doing the right thing, but come on, would Berdine ever do that to Raina? I don't think so. Blah, i can't even look at her.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 10th, 2011 05:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes, Triana and Cara were definitely lovers if Cara's reaction in 1x22 is anything to go by and wonder if Dahlia wasn't actually meant to have been 'Triana' but the showrunners got the chance to stunt cast Corderlia and ran with it.

The funny thing is that Dahlia ends up having the best part of Zedd's undoing spell after all: she gets to have a normal life without any Mord'Sith training and live in a world that Richard and co. saved twice.
vanimy From: vanimy Date: January 10th, 2011 08:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hey hon!

I'm not a big fan of Bonnie actually but I did see they made her some sort of a bitch after her grandmother died. I couldn't stand her for several episodes in Season 2. I like her more lately, ever since she started having kind of a story with the guys from Salem.

Oh and Elena! Yeah, she's my hero too. I think she's one of the most kick ass heroines ever. And she never learnt kung fu. :P
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 11th, 2011 08:18 am (UTC) (Link)
Gosh I love your icon. I miss Alias. *sigh*

It's always baffled me how Bonnie gets flak for being a bitch because she tried to help vampires and her grandmother died for it while Damon doesn't get any flak for torturing and raping and killing people because... he's a tortured soul?

Anyway, the way I see it, the problem isn't that Bonnie is in the anti-vampire camp. The problem is that after the tomb was opened/closed, her story has been reduced to the background. Contrast with the way Caroline's story was consistently followed in Season 1 - her relationship with Matt was completely tangential to the Elena/Salvatore/Vampire plot but it was updated every week. We know a lot about Caroline's hot/cold relationship with Sherrif Forbes but Bonnie's father has never been cast. We are left to assume that she's an only child with no stepmother but there's nothing in the show that has confirmed that either way. We've never even seen her house!

I believe fans would have been more forgiving of Bonnie or at least more understanding of her if she was something more than Magical Negro who hates our Woobie. As it stands, she's just a two-dimensional character with the unthankful job of calling out Damon's faults (and she doesn't even do this consistently: watch her help him murder Mason. So much for not letting Damon hurt anyone). They seem to be going somewhere with Bonnie/Jeremy (there is room for improvement though) and Bonnie/Salem warlocks... but there is still this huge void in her ... definition (for want of a better word) that the writers really need to fix and fast.
meganbmoore From: meganbmoore Date: January 10th, 2011 11:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
*followed your link from a TVD comm*

Whoa, this...is the first time a person has mentioned more than one or two shows-much less over half a dozen-and I've actually recognized every single one. (Even if I've actually only seen the first season of Fringe.)

With Bonnie, I suspect what happened is that the writers underestimated the extreme backlash that would fall on a character for...well, disliking vampires. Which, really, is probably the most intelligent response. But most fans aren't capable, I think, of looking past their fictional kinks-in this case, vampires and redemption-to see that someone with extremely negative experiences with vampires who then sees the only vampire she has good experiences with over the body of a classmate might, you know, HATE vampires, especially when the fandom woobie (how he's a woobie escapes me, but that's another topic) is responsible, directly or by kicking off the resulting chain of events, and so the recipient of most of her anger. In season 1, they seemed to expect people to be totally behind the HATE (urm...the HATE actually made her my favorite forever and ever) and then they had no idea what to do when most people hated her for it. They seem to have ideas now, but unfortunately, they're still wrapped in "black people doing things for privileged white folks" and love interests.

(ETA: Also, I definitely have a preference for Annie/Jai over Annie/Augie.)

Edited at 2011-01-10 11:21 pm (UTC)
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 11th, 2011 08:28 am (UTC) (Link)
I might still your Bonnie icon. :P Don't say that I didn't give you fair warning. :D

I think another problem with Bonnie is like what I just described above. She's poorly defined as a character. Contrast Season 1 Bonnie with Season 2 Caroline. For the first half of the season, both of them got storylines that tied them into the main Elena/Salvatore/vampire story: Bonnie got her witch-discovery arc; Caroline got her Damon-dating arc. But after that, Bonnie fades into the background and only shows up to condemn vampires or help out (or not help out) with magic. Meanwhile Caroline dates Matt (a plot that had nothing to do with the whole 'Vampire' thing and only became marginally important when she discovered Vicky's body); we explore her relationship with her mother (is Bonnie's father even cast? Do we know if she has siblings, a step-mother, an aunt? Have we seen Bonnie's house? Heck, we have seen Matt's house?). There is a disparity in the way her character is handled and there are all sorts of Unfortunate Implications surrounding it. I want to be optimistic: after all, Bonnie/Jeremy is developing and there is the angle with the Salem witches. Let's see how it goes.
myfloralbonnet From: myfloralbonnet Date: January 12th, 2011 12:44 am (UTC) (Link)
Bonnieeeee ♥ They seriously need to do a better job with her, though it has been improving a little bit recently (at least in the amount of screentime she's gettting).

LOTS! ♥ I should rewatch that sometime.

I really think that with more advertising and a full season that Undercovers would have found its target audience/built an audience since towards the end of the season it was getting better. But yeah, the slow start really did not help.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 12th, 2011 10:42 am (UTC) (Link)
As much as I'd love for more!Bonnie! my issues are with the quality of her screentime and not the duration of her screentime. They can increase her screentime more by including her in more Young-Elder-Council meetings with the Salvatores and Gilberts and not develope her character any further than whether she's ready to work with Damon in tonight's episode or not. In comparism to the other secondary characters like Caroline and Tyler, we know very little about Bonnie's inner life.
(Deleted comment)
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 12th, 2011 02:38 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't think Jaden needs an intriguing back-story anymore than Thom does. In the kind of books and stories I read when I was growing up, the frenemies would almost inevitably end up being allies, maybe even BFFs. I miss that.
(Deleted comment)
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 12th, 2011 03:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
Love your Alex icon. :)

But in my opinion, right now she could just be another recruit who happens to get more screentime.

Now that Thom is dead, Jaden is now the closest thing Alex has to a graduating class-mate in Division - at least, I am expecting Jaden will be graduating pretty soon herself. I'm expecting her to get more screentime; but so far, I don't mind the attention she has got. It's always been essential to the plot (e.g. Alex picking a fight with her so she could ge up-close to the Operations window) while laying the foundation for (what I hope will be) something more.
(Deleted comment)
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 14th, 2011 08:16 am (UTC) (Link)
I definitely want to see more Jaden. I get that the show is called Nikita (and subtitled 'and Alex') and the primary focus will be on them. But Jaden has a lot of potential to be as significant a secondary character as Michael if they handle her right. Here's hoping! *shivers with anticipation* Less than 2 weeks to go! Can you stand it?
necros_hun From: necros_hun Date: January 14th, 2011 06:02 am (UTC) (Link)
"to Richard’s Hero"

I just laughed out loud when I read that. :D

"my only regret is that the creeptastic creep that was Dahlia didn’t just DIAF
She tricked Cara, turned her, and continued to serve Darken Rahl even after he was dead. To quote Iroh: she needed to go down
"

I could not disagree more... Yes, she did trick Cara, but not only to please Darken, or because she was selfish. She cared about her, it was clear; at least to me, and as I can see, many other Cara/Dahlia fans too. Dahlia didn't have a choice after DR was defeated, my guess is that he visited the temple where she was serving too, or got word somehow that DR is still her boss. She didn't go through the same thing Cara did that could've shown her what leaving DR in power could mean. And just like Cara said it in Broken, she wouldn't have had anywhere to go to if she left the Mord-Sith. That's the only thing she knew.
But back to what happened in Eternity. She was concerned for Cara, she didn't like seeing her suffer under DR's torture. And I think after a while she started questioning if it was really the right thing to do to bring Cara to Darken. She wanted to fix her, but maybe Cara was right after all. I bet if Darken didn't come up with the plan to use the super Agiel, she would've helped Cara (and Zedd) escape that place.
I hated that the way they "solved" the problem after the Keeper's magic took control of Cara (I don't believe she was broken). That spell of undoing was a joke... There were so many things wrong with the last two episodes... >.>
Oh, and Dahlia was nothing like Triana... Although, I can't be 100% sure, Charisma sucked in that role. The way I saw it, she was just another bitchy Mord-Sith, and she didn't care about Cara at all. I guess most people think that Cara had some kind of deeper connection with her based on Reckoning, but that could be explained in a different way too, imho. I think she could only recognize her dead body (well, what was left of it), and the emotion in her voice and on her face was meant for all of her sisters. I think it fits with what happened at the end of Reckoning and in Marked, the way Cara wanted to protect all of her sisters, not just run away with Triana or something.
At least Dahlia didn't become a Mord-Sith* and had a better life, probably. I just hope she met Cara again, after the crappy ending of Tears, like in some great fanfics.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 14th, 2011 08:30 am (UTC) (Link)
:D Care to share the joke?

She was concerned for Cara, she didn't like seeing her suffer under DR's torture.

Her concern for Cara lasted until Cara head-butted her. Then she said, "It looks like Lord Rahl is being too soft with you. I'd better let him know to up the ante." She was suggesting to Rahl that they torture Zedd. Neither of these actions indicate someone who would have eventually helped Cara or Zedd escape.

I get that the Mord'Sith were broken and that there is a lot of what they do that we cannot hold them cupable for. But at the same time, Dahlia used Cara's feelings for her and the lure of a son that she knew was dead to take her back to the prison that she escaped. That is not concern. That is not love. That is not kindness. She didn't do any of these things for Cara. She did the for herself. She wanted her old girlfriend back under her terms and she couldn't care less if she turned Cara into a zombie to get that.


I hated that the way they "solved" the problem after the Keeper's magic took control of Cara (I don't believe she was broken).

LOTS has always been quick to Hand Wave the powerful magic bit so I fail to see the particular problem with the 'Undoing' spell. I don't think Cara was broken as much as I think that dark magic was used to break Cara. But what difference does it make? I was surprised when I re-watched it that tears still came into my eyes in the moment that Rahl is torturing Cara and she's thinking of Richard, Kahlan and Zedd and he tells her that they aren't going to save her and she says that they already have. They haven't saved her physically but spiritually - she has resigned herself to dying under torture but she knows she will not be broken by Rahl again. Darken Rahl stole her life from her when she was a little girl and it took her a long time to win it back to get, as Zedd put it, a life she was proud of. Thanks to Dahlia, Cara lost that hard-won dignity all again and went back to the dubious honour of being Darken Rahl's Chief Torturer and Sex Slave. With a lover like that, Cara didn't need enemies, did she?


At least Dahlia didn't become a Mord-Sith* and had a better life, probably. I just hope she met Cara again, after the crappy ending of Tears, like in some great fanfics.

How exactly did Tears have a crappy ending? Would you have preferred if the Keeper won? Or if Rahl had somehow managed to gain immortality for himself and his Mord-Sith so that Cara and Dahlia would have been together, serving occasionally as Rahl's sex slaves for eternity? I am pretty sure that the showrunners would not have re-united Dahlia and Cara if there had been a S3 because that would have been beyond the pale.


ETA: I think she could only recognize her dead body.... I think it fits with what happened at the end of Reckoning and in Marked, the way Cara wanted to protect all of her sisters, not just run away with Triana or something
Between Cara's heartfelt 'Triana...', allowing her to live after dunking her in the water and the kiss, it seemed pretty obvious that they were lovers. Dahlia didn't want to run away with Cara either. She didn't want to join Richard and co. and be with Cara either. She wanted Cara back in Rahl's thrall. If I had to choose who I disliked less, I'd go for Triana. At least she rounded the other Mord-Sith to beat up Cara and leave her to die; not re-capture her and get her tortured and cursed so that she could spend eternity as Rahl's sex slave.

Edited at 2011-01-14 08:40 am (UTC)
necros_hun From: necros_hun Date: January 14th, 2011 09:52 am (UTC) (Link)
":D Care to share the joke?"

I just don't think very highly of Richard (in the show at least, from what I've read in BotF and heard from fans, he seems to be a bit more competent in the books), or Craig for that matter. :)

"Her concern for Cara lasted until Cara head-butted her."

No, look again, she looked worried after that scene too. And I'm not the only one seeing that. Dahlia didn't do it for herself... Like I said, she wanted to fix Cara because she thought that the Seeker poisoned her mind. All she knew was the Mord-Sith way. We know that's wrong, Cara knew by that time too, but Dahlia didn't have the opportunity to know anything else but that. Yes, she did a very bad thing, but after the way she acted, I can't hate her. If it wasn't for Laura's performance, I'd be on the Dahlia hate wagon too, but thanks to her I see it differently.

"LOTS has always been quick to Hand Wave the powerful magic bit so I fail to see the particular problem with the 'Undoing' spell."

Well, you hate Dahlia, so you obviously miss one of the reasons. :) They simply erased her from Cara's life and those of us who loved her, feel that's just wrong. Some fans even said that they did this to back out of the lesbian relationship they showed, or to suggest that only evil, broken, crazy women would do that. I don't agree with that, at least I hope that their intention wasn't anything like that, but I can see why this would worry some fans.
And Dahlia was a pretty big part of Cara's life, probably helped her keep a small portion of her humanity intact while she was a Mord-Sith. But the writers just expect us to believe that without an important person like that she would be the exact same Cara we knew before? Bullshit...
Thanks to this spell they finished the show in an alternate universe, so they could change whatever they want to in the future if the show ever comes back.
They also erased the storyline about Cara's son, basically ruining her last big storyline with such a stupid move. Now we don't know if he is dead in this reality too, don't know if Zedd told her about this either, she only mentioned the alternate universe in the deleted scene.
It was also a huge missed opportunity to show the power of love. They could've had Kahland and/or Richard to bring her back from the Keeper's grip, to break the spell that was controlling her. The love is more powerful than any magic crap would've made more sense at the end too.
We already knew how important Cara was, they didn't have to show that again, in a stupid AU episode, in the episode before the finale... *rolls eyes* And the way they treated the characters was wrong too. Richard being so arrogant for example, although that could be explained with the Boxes' effect on him. Kahlan going along with Zedd's plan felt out of character too, just like the plan itself from Zedd. They could've at least took the time to explain things to AU!Cara and ask her to help them, giving her the chance to be a hero in the AU too. And Zedd could've phrased what he said about Leo better too. I was happy to see him again (though I would've traded their sweet scenes for a properly handled Cara storyline in a heartbeat...), but that sounded a bit like they were always meant to be together. And saying that after Kahlan killed Dahlia (can't forgive her for doing that, and not saying anything to her - I know, it made sense to do so, and Kahlan didn't know much about Dahlia, but I liked her and didn't want to see her die...) was just oil on the fire for those who were pissed about the way they handled Dahlia.
That's all I remember now. Point is, I hated the way they ruined Cara's last storyline. The bit with the hesitation was nice though, I loved that, but after Eternity I expected more than this stupid spell...

"I don't think Cara was broken as much as I think that dark magic was used to break Cara."

I don't think she was broken at all. The magic was controlling her somehow. I base that on the thing Zedd did, when he revealed that dark magic while Cara was tied up. We could see that magic "infecting" Cara when Darken used the spelled Agiel on her.
lil_itu From: lil_itu Date: January 14th, 2011 01:40 pm (UTC) (Link)
That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. They didn't need to portray Cara in a Lesbian relationship at all. Going to find her son was enough. Dahlia could have just been a close friend, like Triana was supposed to be.

Also do you have any idea how bloody offensive it is for you to equate bisexual=gay? They don't mean the same thing at all and I for one find it incredibly heterosexist of you to lump all under the same 'gay' heading and conclude that a bisexual woman is not allowed to have a loving relationship with a man she has been shown to be attracted to.
necros_hun From: necros_hun Date: January 14th, 2011 03:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
"That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. They didn't need to portray Cara in a Lesbian relationship at all. Going to find her son was enough. Dahlia could have just been a close friend, like Triana was supposed to be."
Well, that's your opinion, I respect that, but I think it was done very well, and obviously many people liked it, so did I. The show isn't a direct translation of everything from the books, if that's what upset you. And as far as I could gather, there is no way to be sure she wasn't bisexual in the books, we don't know if she had any relationships with women before she went to help Richard.

"Also do you have any idea how bloody offensive it is for you to equate bisexual=gay?"
O.o Where did you get that from?! I never said that and I do not think that way! And I'm a Cara/Leo and Cara/Dahlia fan, so of course I think a woman can have a meaningful relationship with both men and women. I have no idea why you think I was implying otherwise...
lil_itu From: lil_itu Date: February 7th, 2011 10:11 am (UTC) (Link)
You may not have meant to, but what you implied was extremely offensive. I would advise you to remember that bisexuals are real-life people, not just fetish fuel for your fannish wet dreams.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: February 7th, 2011 05:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
THIS.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 14th, 2011 02:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
Fair enough. I like the TV show because, despite its flaws, it shows
that heroes can be good people. I can’t say the same of the books and
after sludging through them, I gave up. But you do know that in the
books, there is no such creature like Dahlia? Or that Cara is not
written as bisexual?

No, look again, she looked worried after that scene too.

Well, you like Dahlia so you obviously mistook anger as worry.

Well, you hate Dahlia, so you obviously miss one of the reasons. :)
They simply erased her from Cara's life and those of us who loved her,
feel that's just wrong.


I hate Dahlia so I think that Zedd taking her from a reality where she
died at the wrong end of Confession and putting her in one where she
was never kidnapped as a child and tortured into becoming a soldier
and sex-slave for Darken Rahl and got to live a relatively happy life
in obscurity... was too good for her. :P

Some fans even said that they did this to back out of the lesbian
relationship they showed, or to suggest that only evil, broken, crazy
women would do that.


Cara isbisexual, not lesbian. She findsbothmen and women
attractive. As a matter of fact, since you choose to disregard Triana,
then you're left with Dahlia as the only woman we see Cara willing to
have sex with - up against Richard (in Reckoning), Mr. 'Something
Sweet' (in Broken) and Leo. (I’m not counting Rahl because that was
non-consensual. Cara may have been ‘eager to please’ but that was
conditioning).


And Dahlia was a pretty big part of Cara's life, probably helped
her keep a small portion of her humanity intact while she was a
Mord-Sith.


The Mord-Sith don’t erase girl’s humanity: they distort and re-direct
the devotion they have for their families and loved ones to Lord Rahl
and their fellow sisters. That’s why they are calledSistersof
the Agiel. That’s why Darken keeps using the word ‘family’ and ‘home’
when he is training her. That is the entire deceit of the Mord-Sith:
they initiate little girls into accepting ‘their true family’ (Broken)
and when her father ‘betrays’ her, Cara’s School-teacher/Mord-Sith
Mistress embraces her like a mother.

They also erased the storyline about Cara's son, basically ruining
her last big storyline with such a stupid move. Now we don't know if
he is dead in this reality too, don't know if Zedd told her about this
either, she only mentioned the alternate universe in the deleted
scene.

That’s the point. We don’t know. He could be still alive – (I actually
have this theory – that in this reality, since Dahlia was not there to
stab Cara in the back in the name of love, some other Mord Sith
spirited Cara’s son away from Rahl in the nick of time) or he could be
dead. We will probably not know now that there is no Season 3. We
didn’t know that Denee’s Confessor son had died before the end of
Season 1 either but at the time Richard, Kahlan and Zedd were sharing
their group hug at the end of Season 1, Kahlan was the last Confessor
left in the world and she did not know it.

We already knew how important Cara was, they didn't have to show
that again, in a stupid AU episode, in the episode before the
finale... *rolls eyes* And the way they treated the characters was
wrong too. Richard being so arrogant for example, although that could
be explained with the Boxes' effect on him. Kahlan going along with
Zedd's plan felt out of character too, just like the plan itself from
Zedd. They could've at least took the time to explain things to
AU!Cara and ask her to help them, giving her the chance to be a hero
in the AU too.


You already know why Richard was arrogant. What are you still
complaining about? And Kahlan did not go along easily with Zedd’s
plan. Remember she had to give up her child and a chance of a life
with Richard. But they had no choice between Zedd’s plan and trying to
come up with something else while Rahl had the Boxes of Orden
andthe power to control people’s minds.


Edited at 2011-01-14 02:43 pm (UTC)
necros_hun From: necros_hun Date: January 14th, 2011 09:52 am (UTC) (Link)
"How exactly did Tears have a crappy ending?"

I was talking about the last scene, the way they ignored Cara, again, after she brought Richard back, basically saving the world. Not a "Hey, thanks for that" or anything, she was just standing there... At least the first season ended with a shot of Richard, Kahlan and Zedd, not just the two lovers making out... Cara also found out what she lost the night before in the deleted scene, but nobody gave a crap about that either...
And that "love is the most powerful thing" bit sounded like bs to me. I know, it's in the books, probably explained and done better, but I still can't take it seriously.

"Between Cara's heartfelt 'Triana...', allowing her to live after dunking her in the water and the kiss, it seemed pretty obvious that they were lovers."

Like I said, that "Triana" can be explained in a different way too. Allowing her to live? Why did Cara choose to help Richard? To save her sisters. She wasn't going to kill Triana just because she was bitching, it was about showing who is in charge, to her and to the others as well. And the kiss was simply powerplay, nothing more. Showing Triana she was in charge and if she wanted to have some fun with her (for example), then she will do so when she pleases. So, to me, it's not obvious at all. Unlike Cara and Dahlia's relationship. It was clear to me they loved each other and had a history, the actresses sold it. Charisma on the other hand... And Triana wanted her dead, she didn't show any concern for Cara, that makes me dislike her. Dahlia, like I said it before, didn't do it only for herself, imho. Of course, she wanted her back, but that wasn't the only reason.

I get why you and some other fans are feeling this way though. How someone sees an actor's performance is always subjective, it can lead to different conclusions for some storylines.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 14th, 2011 02:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
Think about that for a moment. They had spent the entirety of Season
One trying to stop Rahl from getting the Boxes of Orden together
because once he did, all was lost. Well now, all was lost and Zedd’s
idea was the only hope they had. And they had to do it quickly while
Rahl’s men and faithful Mord Sith were closing on them fast. Yes, it
would have been kinder to explain to Cara, but there was no time.


As for not making Cara a hero – you have to make up your mind. You
can’t complain an episode that showed how important Cara was and then
complain that she wasn’t heroic enough in that same episode.



It was also a huge missed opportunity to show the power of love.

I don't think she was broken at all. The magic was controlling her
somehow.


But what is your point? Mord-Sith are trained with Dark Magic. We see
that happen to Richard in Denna. She tells him how every time she
kills him with the Agiel and brings him back to life, it is magic
binding him to her. What is the difference between the magic of the
ordinary Agiel or the magic of the Keeper-powered one? We see in
‘Resurrection’ and ‘Denna’, that even death cannot remove the power of
the Agiel, only the power of love (or Confession which is based on
love) can break it. Instead of Confessing Cara, they decided on Zedd
doing a powerful, unstable spell to save her. That is love: the love
of breaking the rules of common sense and expediency and the whole
universe – not a love that betrays you and turns you into a zombie so
that your ‘beloved’ can go back to the good old days when you were a
sex slave and murderer.





I was talking about the last scene, the way they ignored Cara,
again, after she brought Richard back, basically saving the world. Not
a "Hey, thanks for that" or anything, she was just standing
there...




I’ve heard complaints from people that Season 2 focused too much on
Cara. That were too many Cara-centric episodes and that Richard and
Kahlan had very little focus on them exclusively. I don’t completely
agree but I can see where someone who watches the show for
Richard/Kahlan would think so. I think a group hug as the last shot of
Season 2 would have been sweet. But I also think that since Richard
and Kahlan had only just discovered that
OMG!Wecantotallyhavesexandmakeabilliontybabies, it would have been
pretty unrealistic. And that’s just nitpicking. The past two episodes
had almost been entirely Cara-centric, Zedd had just changed the
world twice to give her back a life that she had become proud
of (that’s the reason why he spells Dahlia not Cara), he even gives
her that ham-fisted Aesop about how her hesitation to kill Kahlan is
a sign of strength not weakness. There are so many great Cara episodes
in the whole of Season 2 that I can’t complain that I didn’t get one
more Cara moment in the jam-packed squeal feast that was ‘Tears’.





She wasn't going to kill Triana just because she was bitching, it
was about showing who is in charge, to her and to the others as well.
And the kiss was simply powerplay, nothing more. Showing Triana she
was in charge and if she wanted to have some fun with her (for
example), then she will do so when she pleases. So, to me, it's not
obvious at all.


That’s your interpretation but take note that it’s an interpretation
that does some serious revision of Cara’s portrayal: the most
prominent of which is making her out to be some kind of rapist. We’ve
seen Cara come head-to-head with Mord’Sith before: Denna and Garen and
at no time does she sexually intimidate anyone.



I get why you and some other fans are feeling this way though. How
someone sees an actor's performance is always subjective, it can lead
to different conclusions for some storylines.


Actually, I think Laura Brent did a brilliant performance as Dahlia.
Otherwise why would I dislike Dahlia so much? :P
necros_hun From: necros_hun Date: January 14th, 2011 03:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
We will never agree, on many things, that's quite obvious to me. :)

Sorry if using the word lesbian confused you, I didn't mean it like that, didn't mean any offense. I know she is bisexual in the show, like I said in the other reply to lil_itu, I'm a Cara/Leo fan too.

"heroes can be good people"
Yes, but it wouldn't hurt to show them as more competent. Or having a better actor to portray one wouldn't be a bad thing either. Craig did a good enough job, but I'm sure they could've found a better, more convincing actor.

"But you do know that in the books, there is no such creature like Dahlia? Or that Cara is not written as bisexual?"
Yes, I know. So? Why the question?

"The Mord-Sith don’t erase girl’s humanity: they distort and re-direct the devotion they have for their families and loved ones to Lord Rahl and their fellow sisters."
The comment was long enough, I had to send it in two replies already, didn't want to go into it deeper than that. The point is, there was still a small part in her that wasn't twisted by the Mord-Sith training, that allowed her to do what she did in Reckoning and to evolve after she joined the Seeker. And Dahlia being there with her probably helped her to keep that little spart alive.

"That’s your interpretation but take note that it’s an interpretation that does some serious revision of Cara’s portrayal: the most prominent of which is making her out to be some kind of rapist. We’ve seen Cara come head-to-head with Mord’Sith before: Denna and Garen and at no time does she sexually intimidate anyone."
Are you serious or you're just messing with me now? :) Mord-Sith use brute force and their sexuality, we all know that. And she didn't have to and didn't want to do the same thing with Denna and Garen. She didn't have the time either, plus the situations were very different too.

"The past two episodes had almost been entirely Cara-centric"
Oh really, how so? Extinction was about every character, though the main focus was on Richard and Darken, and on Cara, but it wasn't Cara centric, there was a lot going on. I cut out R&K's scenes from Eternity and Cara's scenes were shorter put together, with the first and almost last scene included where the others were there too. And she had much less screen time in Unbroken.

"Zedd had just changed the world twice"
I wish he didn't, they could've done it differently.

"But what is your point? Mord-Sith are trained with Dark Magic."
Yes, but this was a different case. And I haven't seen Zedd doing that thing where he showed the magic in Care before either.

"As for not making Cara a hero – you have to make up your mind. You can’t complain an episode that showed how important Cara was and then complain that she wasn’t heroic enough in that same episode."
Oh boy... Okay... So, since they wrote the episode that way, the least they could've done was to show her some respect in that reality too. And telling her what was going wouldn't have taken too much time, they could've done that...
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: January 14th, 2011 05:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've noticed a trend in fandom whereby bisexual characters are not 'allowed' to be in meaningful relationships with opposite-sex people. Coding Cara's relationship with Dahlia as a Lesbian is no better than claiming that Cara is straight when she is with Leo.

I actually thought the LOTS show did a good job of showing the heroes as competent. YMMV.

I asked because if you are comparing the show to the books as if the books were the standard, then the point of this discussion - Dahlia - is moot. She doesn't exist in the books. Cara's friendship with Dahlia helped her survive the Mord-Sith training. That's all. There's no evidence whatsoever that it is Dahlia in particular that helped her retain her humanity. In the books, there were a pair of Mord-Sith lovers and Rahl enjoyed humiliating them for their orientation, and hurting them by taking each of them to his bed. And neither Berdine nor Raina wanted that life for each other. There is no parallel whatsoever in the books with Dahlia and I don't think there is meant to be one.




"The past two episodes had almost been entirely Cara-centric"
Oh really, how so?


Firstly, that an epsiode is *this-person* -centric doesn't mean that person had the most screentime in terms of minutes and seconds. In Eternity, who got the A-story in that episode? Whose narrative is really driving the plot? Whose arc story is being moved forward? R/K's story is almost completely quest-centric. Zedd is part of Cara's story - not the other way around. And Cara gets back-story, and a rivetting plot that is completely about her.

Secondly, you're comparing apples and oranges if you're comparing R/K screentime against Cara. You want to compare her to another character, then it's Zedd you should be comparing her to. It's not by mistake that TB's name is fourth on the billing list. And do you really think that compared to Zedd, Cara's arc was short-changed in that episode or in the entirety of Season 2?

In 'Unbroken', Cara may not have had the most screen-time but the whole plot hinges on the Undoing spell that was done on her - for her - because of her - and to buttress her importance, the story tells us that it is because of her and her alone that the world stands a chance of being saved.

I wish he didn't, they could've done it differently.

I'm glad I got Cara back - Cara who had not been betrayed by Dahlia or broken (or spelled, whichever) by Rahl. And since Dahlia got rewarded indirectly, I really don't see what was so terrible about what Zedd did. Or would you have preferred if the Keeper had won?


Yes, but this was a different case. And I haven't seen Zedd doing that thing where he showed the magic in Care before either.

Once again, what is the point?

Oh boy... Okay... So, since they wrote the episode that way, the least they could've done was to show her some respect in that reality too. And telling her what was going wouldn't have taken too much time, they could've done that...

I think they showed Cara a lot of respect by showing how important she was to the Seeker's quest - that her turn in Reckoning was not a blind coincidence that incidentally helped Richard but something essential to the saving of the world - and that her redemption was worth changing the world over two times for. As for Dahlia... well, once again she got to live a relatively happy life that she didn't deserve.
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