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More Alias questions - moonspinner
moonspinner
moonspinner
More Alias questions



1. Was Vaughn's father a Rambaldi believer? If not, why did he kidnap Nadia from Irina?
2. How much older is Sloane than Jack?
3. Why, when and for how long was Irina a prisoner in the KGB high security prison? (Season 2 - The Passage)
4. Did Sydney ever meet Sloane before she started working for SD-6? (That is, when she was old enough to remember?)
5. Who seduced whom - Sloane or Irina?
6. How could an uber-cool chick like Nadia ever have ended up with a wuss like Weiss? :P!
7. Is anyone out there writing a Laura/Jack fic?
8. Has anyone else noticed that there are 2 Laur(x)s in this series - Laura Bristow and Lauren Vaugn - and both of them were SpyWifys? :O


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selenak From: selenak Date: October 11th, 2005 02:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
1.) No. As it turned out, the entire Vaughn's father as Rambaldi follower tale was a lie fed to Vaughn by Elena Derevko & her allies. Which was a wise decision on the part of the scriptwriters as it would have made complete nonsense of the date line otherwise (Irina killed Vaughn Senior way before she left the US, back when she was still Laura).

2.) I always assumed he was older, but andrastewhite pointed out that according to the info in the season 1 DVD package he's actually two years younger. But then again, only on screen canon counts, so the answer is simply that we don't know.

3.) "The Passage" is the only thing we ever hear about it. Her pregnancy with Nadia might or might not have something to do with it, or it could have been plain old cold war paranoia - she had been undercover for a very long time, after all.

4.) No. One of the big mysteries of the show, since obviously Jack kept in contact with Sloane throughout, and both Sloane and Emily knew little Sydney in the Laura days. My own personal speculation? Events went like this:

a) Laura dies/ is discovered to have been a Russian spy. Jack gets jail for a time and derails.
b) Emily offers Jack that they could adopt Sydney.
c) This shocks Jack into getting a grip on himself, but it also ensures he cuts of social contact with the Sloanes as a couple the way he had had it in the Laura days and only meets Arvin either via work or alone.

4. Your guess is as good as mine. I always hated the fanon which had Irina as an innocent victim who got blackmailed into sex by him and raped, because seriously, if he had done that? He wouldn't have survived it. This is Irina Derevko we're talking about. A great and ambiguous and strong character who doesn't need to be whitewashed into Victim!Irina. Sloane sort of implies she started it by his phrasing in "Hourglass" (when he says she slept with him for information, but that's an ambiguous phrase), but he's angry at this point, both at Jack and himself. Irina apologizes to Jack for her "indiscretion" with Sloane in the season 4 final episodes, and the term "indiscretion" doesn't say who made the first pass, either.
6.Oh, come on, Weiss is adorable. Far more than Yawn, err, Vaughn.
7.Loads, I imagine, as Jack/Irina is the most popular thing ever, and there are a lot of stories set during their marriage.
8. Not that I know of.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: October 11th, 2005 03:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks selenak! ::hugs::

1. If Vaughn's daddy didn't steal baby Nadia from her mother's arms, then how did Irina lose Nadia in the first place?

2. That's strange. In season 2, when Jack's been interviewed by Alliance Counter-Intelligence Officer (WhoLiterallyIsForceFedHerOwnMedicine) Kane, he said that Sloane was his supervisor in the CIA. I think? Maybe it was the other way round!

3. If it was cold war paranoia, that could be the moment when she broke away from the KGB and struck up on her own. The whole concept is very mysterious, I must admit. If she was a prisoner, with no friends in the building (as she claimed when Jack accused her), how come she was still in such chummy terms with her ex-supervisor. Did she lie? Probably but that would be so ...

4. I like your speculation. I think it makes excellent sense in the whole concept of the story. I really need to get round to watching Season 1. Can you believe I've never seen it? I got hooked onto Alias around the time Irina D made her debut. To me the whole show's really been about her. And don't tell me it's far fetched. Is it any coincidence that Rambaldi's symbol - and ostensibly, the symbol of the show, depicts her two children deciding the fate of the world?

5. Victim!Irina??? Don't make me laugh! I can't even believe Sloane blackmailed her into sleeping with him, he won'thave lived to rue the day. But I won't belittle Sloane's esteem for his wife or his love for Jack by saying Irina seduced him either. I like to think that it was mutual attraction based on a shared growing obssession with Rambaldi that might have instigated it. Something about sleeping together because they were destined too. Of course, if Sloane said she only did it for information in Season 3, then that throws that theory out of the window!

Which leads to a 5-a question: What exactly does Jack feel about Nadia? The living proof that his best friend and wife - the two people whom he loved the most (other than Sydney who doesn't count 'cos she's his kid) broke his heart in the worst way possible?

6. Weiss isn't bad. But I'd have picked someone else. Tippin for example. Or Sark. Yum! Can you imagine if he had been the one to rescue her from Evil-Beauty character (can't remember the episode but the one where he escapes?) and they started something clandestinish Irina/Jack-ish (before he killed her - or not, I mean) together? Nadia is a lot like Sydney was before. She's willing to give people second chances e.g. Sloane, Irina, Katya, even Elena... Why not Sark? No offence to Weiss but he's totally out of his league.

7. Can you recommend any good ones? Better yet - can you write a couple? I adore your takes on Alias. Please? Pretty please? ::bats eyelashes desperately::

8. YAH! I'm such an original thinker. ::GRINS!::

selenak From: selenak Date: October 11th, 2005 05:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

I.

1. If she was in fact jailed during her pregnancy, she would not have had a choice and would never have been in charge of the baby. Though we should take into account that the one who ended up with the baby was her sister Elena. And Elena would have been far more likely to have access to Irina & baby Nadia if Irina was at liberty.

2. He does say that, and it's also mentioned in season 1. They often worked as a field team, but Sloane was the agent in charge and later the supervisor.

3. Yes, I definitely think that was when Irina decided to go solo. I mean, here she has given her all for Mother Russia and that's how she gets repaid? (You can construct a parallel to Sloane here who lost the "unsentimental patriotism" Jack says he and Jack shared along the same time and also partly because of the loss of a child (Jacquelyne), and replaced it with Rambaldi and the decision to go into business for himself.

4. Season 1 is worth watching, though there is no Irina until the last episode (the discovery that her mother is not dead, and the search for her, is part of Sydney's arc throughout the season). It lays a lot of groundwork for all the characters - for example, you can't appreciate how far Jack and Sydney have come in season 2 if you haven't seen how completely screwed up their relationship is at the start of season 1, where Jack is barely able to communicate with her (and that's Jack's fault, not Sydney's, she tries and gets rebuffed a lot). And then there is both the foundation for Sydney's hate for Sloane - the death of her fiance in the pilot - and the other layers for that relationship, because it's made obvious that during her six years at SD-6 before her discovery of the truth, she liked him a lot and saw him and Emily as semi-replacement parents - Sloane was the father who openly gave approval, showed her he liked her, and shared the work (Sydney doesn't know Jack is both an agent and an SD6 agent until the pilot), and Emily is her idealized version of her mother.

5. Yes, I see it as ridiculous, too. It's so ooc for her. Shared Rambaldi obsession could be a reason - as I said, the season 3 statement is given under very particular circumstances when both men are really angry with each other. I think the most insightful thing Sloane ever said about Irina and his relationship with her was his statement to Nadia in season 4, when Nadia had just heard from Sydney about Irina's dark side - that he and Irina understood each other because they were a lot alike, and that Irina might have done terrible things to get what she wanted but was also capable of great love and undoubtedly does love both Sydney and Nadia. Mind you, of course he is indirectly asking Nadia to believe that this is true for him as well, but I still think he's right. (About both of them - they did do terrible things, and they're capable of great love. Incidentally, that's another reason why one should watch season 1, because while we don't see Irina, we see some of her handiwork, and of course plenty of Sloane's handiwork, and believe me, neither is pretty. It's not like Sydney doesn't have a reason to distrust them.) And that's both why they had an affair and why they weren't actually in love - they saw each other a little bit too clearly for comfort. Whereas Irina was in love with Jack and Sloane with Emily because their respective partners were different from themselves.

selenak From: selenak Date: October 11th, 2005 05:33 pm (UTC) (Link)

II.

5a) And that's where the Alias subgenre called WowWrongBadHot comes in.*g* No, seriously, a lot of Jack/Nadia stories speculate he either has got a thing for her because Derevkos are his Kryptonite (after all, in addition to Irina, there was Katya whom he had sex with in season 3) or in darker variations sees having an affair with her as a way to get even with both Irina and Sloane for the betrayal. During the earlier mentioned exchange of angry words in season 3, he says to Sloane "whatever you did to my daughter is nothing compared to what I'm going to do to yours", and I never took that to mean he was threatening to kill Nadia there. Of course, that was before he actually met her. My own take? He comes to like her in season 4, and that troubles him, but he also (and this might be true for Sydney as well) sees Nadia as an embodiment of the better qualities of her parents. Whom as you said he has strong feelings for.

6. She never met Tippin, but if we're talking about younger Alias men in general, I'd have gone for him, too.*g* Sark: given her relationship with Cesar and Roberto in her past, I can see that.

7. My favourite Jack/Irina through the ages story. And if you don't object to a little slash, "Get me to the Church in Time", which is set shortly before and during the Jack/Laura wedding, Sloane's pov, and manages to find a credible way of working in a one night stand between young Jack and young Arvin while doing fully justice to the passion Jack has for Laura-Irina.

There are others, but for starters, these are favourites of mine.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: October 12th, 2005 09:57 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: II.

5a. During the earlier mentioned exchange of angry words in season 3, he says to Sloane "whatever you did to my daughter is nothing compared to what I'm going to do to yours", and I never took that to mean he was threatening to kill Nadia there.

Neither did I. I think the idea played round in JJ's mind but he got cold feet at the last minute. Completely OT, but I also think that originally, Sydney was meant to have been Sloane's kid. There were just too many angles pointing in that direction... But like someone said in the DVD commentary, then 'what's [does that make] Jack?' So they invented Nadia to be the lost daughter.

Which leads to Question 5b: Did Sloane ever suspect that Irina had a child for him? Did he perhaps think that Sydney was his daughter? Which of course invalidates the theory that her affair with Sloane was a last-ditch attempt to hold onto her life but all the same...


6. Oh, yes I could see that too! I really liked that episode with Roberto. Nadia looked so young and Natalie Portmanlike in the flashbacks. *g* And in the end when she kills Roberto, crying as she does so... It's just so sad.

7. *g* Thanks for the links. Will check them out ASAP.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: October 12th, 2005 04:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
1.) No. As it turned out, the entire Vaughn's father as Rambaldi follower tale was a lie fed to Vaughn by Elena Derevko & her allies. Which was a wise decision on the part of the scriptwriters as it would have made complete nonsense of the date line otherwise (Irina killed Vaughn Senior way before she left the US, back when she was still Laura).



Okay. News from the site at last. Found this at the character bio pages at the official site. A little more light shed into Nadia's character.


http://abc.go.com/primetime/alias/profiles/cia_santos.html



PROFILE: Santos, Nadia
Place of Birth: Moscow, Russia
Father: Arvin Sloane
Mother: Irina Derevko
Half-sister: Sydney Bristow
Aunts: Katya Derevko, Elena Derevko
Education: Unknown
Languages: English, Spanish, Russian
Current Location: Los Angeles

Personal History:
Dr. Jong Lee experimented on Nadia as a young girl, using the Rambaldi elixir to try and make her reveal the equation that would lead to Rambaldi's Sphere of Life. CIA agent and Rambaldi follower William Vaughn rescued Nadia and brought her to an orphanage ran by Sophia Vergara.

Nadia later ran away from the orphanage after saving a friend from a child predator. On the streets, she meets Cesar Martinez and builds a reputation as small-time criminals. After being arrested in her late teens, a man named Roberto Fox visited her in jail with an offer to work for the Argentine Intelligence. Later, Nadia realizes that Fox was running an illegal operation under the guise of working for the government. Nadia confronts and shoots him.

Six years later, Nadia was on her first deep-cover assignment in a Chechnyan prison, and was found by Agent Sydney Bristow, her half-sister. Started working for the APO and is dating Agent Eric Weiss.

Currently in critical condition after being subjected to Rambaldi's device and battling her sister close to death. Shot by her father, Arvin Sloane.





Seems like Vaugn's father did have something to do with her at a time in her life - after Laura. Whether he 'saved' her from Dr Jong Lee because he was a Rambaldi follower is unclear.

I wish they'd hurry up and update Irina's profile. Let's clarify the whole thing once and for all.
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